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Someguy -
Hello all! Next year I plan to study abroad but can't decide weather to go to Taiwan or China and
I am wondering what you all percieve as the main differences between the two.
In regards to things such as people,nightlife, general environment and esp. Chinese study.
I have posted a thread on this topic at
forumosa(http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?t=65379) and have gotten many replies. The
third to last post makes me really consider going to Taiwan when before I was pretty set on the
mainland.
Anyway if you're to busy to read, a lot of them seem to think that Taiwan is a more sociable
atmosphere and it's easier to make friends that one can talk about a myriad of things with and not
have to censor yourself. Also that it may be hard (as a foriegner) to make genuine friends in
China because a lot of them just want foreign friends to practice english or for the sake of
having one.
I am also wondering which would be better for studying chinese. I have heard mixed opinions on
this matter.
Anyway any input would be appreciated and by no means I'm I trying to start some sort of flame
war. Opinions are subjective and as such no one opinion can be held as truth.
Thanks!
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cdn_in_bj -
Quote:
Anyway if you're to busy to read, a lot of them seem to think that Taiwan is a more sociable
atmosphere and it's easier to make friends that one can talk about a myriad of things with and not
have to censor yourself.
Well I have never had to "censor" myself here. I find my friends and coworkers here to be very
open about and willing to discuss social issues and politics. The 老北京 types are especially
not afraid to speak their minds about the latter.
Quote:
Also that it may be hard (as a foriegner) to make genuine friends in China because a lot of them
just want foreign friends to practice english or for the sake of having one.
I think this is an unfair generalization to make about the mainland. It's more about how and where
you go about meeting said friends. If someone makes friends with you, just because of the fact
that you are foreign, then this should send off alarm bells right away. Also, common ways of
meeting people in western countries, for example, at bars or clubs, may not be the best ways to
make friends here. I will grant that due to the large wealth gap here there are people who will
not hesitate to take advantage of you, but you would have to be on the guard for this in other
less developed countries too. It could very well be that you would encounter less of these
problems in Taiwan, but on the otherhand I don't think it should stop you from choosing to come
here either.
zhiming -
People are people. No matter where you go you are going to find all kinds. I haven't noticed any
differences between the two peoples other than their political views.
The languages aspect is something I can tell you something about. China offers a much broader
range of accents. The accents come from the geographic dialects and the fact that Mandarin has
only been taught in Chinese schools pervasively for the past few decades. In Taiwan you pretty
much get one accent. There are a couple of dialects (Hakka and Taiwanese) but they have had very
little effect on the people's pronunciation of Mandarin.
Many people consider the Beijing pronunciation as the base pronunciation of Mandarin and
everything else is a deviation thereof. It is true that for a novice student of Mandarin, the
Beijing pronunciation is relatively easy to understand and pickup compared to most other regions
of China.
This being said, the Taiwanese pronunciation is very similar to the Beijing pronunciation. In fact
the Taiwanese accent removes much of the usage of the 'r' predicate constant. Such as in "Deng yi
huar", and "xiao har". This can make it easier to pick up; the 'r' sound addition is one of those
things that most Chinese courses don't teach early on.
Most teachers of basic to intermediate Chinese courses try to mimic either the Beijing or the
Taiwan accents.
Taiwan has standardized their characters to the traditional set of Chinese characters. China has
standardized on simplified characters. Both are important to learn but this mostly depends on what
your goals are. If you are going to have future relations in either country, you should learn your
target country's character set. That being said, there are only somewhere between 600 - 800
characters that are different between the two. It just so happens that they are the 600-800 most
common characters that have been simplified.
Many Americans feel more at home in Taiwan because of its overall education level and American
commerce. You can find many of the same stores in Taiwan that you see in America. This is not the
case in China because because of its closed commercial history. There are more English speakers
per capita in Taiwan than in China. The biggest difference between the two countries is land mass
and subsequently cultural diversity. You can travel around China your entire life and still feel
as if you haven't seen it all.
My suggestions: If you are just starting out learning Chinese and you want to work on your basic
pronunciation, go to either anywhere in Taiwan or to Beijing. If you have a good grasp on the
pronunciation of Chinese and want to improve your speaking / listening abilities you might want to
try other parts of China. Only a small portion of the Chinese people use the Beijing accent and it
is good to become familiar with others.
~Zhiming
coolnicholas -
Zhiming!! i want you to understand that Taiwan and mainland is only one country is China.don't
write Taiwan and China,Taiwan is a part of China, they are not two countries.
Lu -
Coolnicolas, please don't go into that. You know as well as we all do that opinions vary on that
issue, we can have a mile-long discussion on it without getting anywhere, and it has nothing
whatsoever to do with the OP's question.
Someguy: I'd describe Taiwan as China-light, not as much of a culture shock, life is very
convenient (every Taiwanese will tell you this, and it's true). There is an accent: people in
Taiwan tend to have less retroflexes. But teachers generally have a good, standard accent. People
here also speak more clearly than on the mainland. Chinese to foreigners is usually taught in
pinyin, not in bopomofo/zhuyin fuhao.
As to making friends, it really is easy here. Made more local friends here than I did in Beijing
(but that might also be because by the time I came here, my Chinese was better and I more sociable
than when I was in BJ). People in Taiwan are really nice. Much less of a wealth-gap, that makes it
easier to go places with people and hang out, as they have approximately the same budget as you do.
People who only want to know you for your English are on both sides of the Strait. They are
avoided most effectively by not speaking English to them. People who are not at all interested in
learning English can also be found on both sides of the Strait.
The nightlife in Taipei is fine, don't know about other places. But I think that for studying
Chinese in Taiwan, Taipei is the best place, for the simple reason that the best schools for
teaching Chinese to foreigners are here. As to culture, Taipei has the Palace Museum, and it is
awesome. But apart from that, China is a better place for culture, both ancient and modern.
Lastly, I don't know if money is an issue, but the mainland is cheaper than Taiwan.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
shanghaikai -
First off, I haven't had the chance to read all the responses you've gotten on forumosa.com but
did notice that there were advocates for both Taiwan and China. If there is a something specific
they've said that you'd like to get more opinions on, please let us know.
Like cdn_in_bj, I hope you don't accept those generalizations about China as they are more false
than they are true. If nothing else, the same could be said for both Taiwan and China together as
opposed to one or the other. Zhiming also gave you a decent rundown of some similarities,
differences, and background.
My suggestion is for you to come to China. Given its rising influence in international politics
and the global economy, this would be a better place to see how the world is changing. While
you're unlikely to learn everything there is to learn about Taiwan during your stay there, China
is simply a bigger sandbox for you to play in. As such, I do feel that you'll have more potential
to encounter and learn new and different things than you would in Taiwan.
I would argue that simplified characters are easier to learn than complex characters, if only
because there are less strokes to memorize. Like it or not, Chinese characters will require
memorization. While I personally find complex characters to be more beautiful and balanced, I
don't find it too difficult to figure out complex characters when I encounter them. That said,
going from complex to simplified is obviously easier. For you, however, I doubt the written
language will be a major priority until you've become sufficiently fluent in oral communications.
I'd like to say there is less English speakers and fluency in China compared to Taiwan but I
wouldn't have any exact figures. Regardless, I'd wager that China would force you to speak Chinese
more than Taiwan. As zhiming also said, you'd be exposed to far more Mandarin accents in China
than elsewhere. This is a good thing for helping the brain grasp and develop new sounds when
associated with meanings.
Nightlife really depends on what city you're in. Most major cities will have decent nightclubs and
activities to get yourself into trouble with. I wouldn't really worry about this and if you came
to Shanghai, I'd personally show you both the ropes and around if you like. China can be a bit
seedier than Taiwan in this regard just due to socio-economic realities, but you have plenty of
options...unless you like the seedier options, which would then be better for you. ;)
Again, I recommend China. As Lu said, Taiwan is sometimes like China-light. If you're going to
come to Asia for Chinese, might as well go to the buffet rather than the tasting table. Cheers and
good luck!
wushijiao -
Another thing to consider, I've read hear on the forums (and I can't remember who said it) but
there is a better range of books for learners of Chinese published in Mainland China than there is
in Taiwan (whether that is true or not for taiwan, I don't know). But I can say, since I lived on
the Mainland for 5+ years, the number of books and the quality of the books got better every year.
That might be one factor to think about.
On the other hand, I would agree with the idea that you end up censoring yourself a lot in the
Mainland, especially if you are really into politics and don't want to sound really rude. At least
in Taiwan there is debate about a lot of issues.
But if you would want to get as fluent as quick as possible, it might be worth it to just go to
some small city or town in the middle of nowhere in northern China. That's what I would do.
But then again, I've heard that some programs are really good in Taiwan.
It all depends on what your goals are, and what your personality is like.
deezy -
Quote:
Anyway if you're to busy to read, a lot of them seem to think that Taiwan is a more sociable
atmosphere and it's easier to make friends that one can talk about a myriad of things with and not
have to censor yourself. Also that it may be hard (as a foriegner) to make genuine friends in
China because a lot of them just want foreign friends to practice english or for the sake of
having one.
Sounds like some over-hyped China-bashing here...that really is of minor influence. Honestly,
there are not Gestapo on every streetcorner in China eavesdropping on your conversations. Gotta
love that stereotype - right up there with streets littered with girl babies and dog meat at every
meal.
Well, here's the REAL significant differences you should be aware of:
China uses simplified characters and pinyin.
Taiwan uses traditional characters and bopomofo.
Now, you decide which one has more future potential and is easier to learn for you.
adrianlondon -
Many Mandarin schools in Taiwan will use pinyin and I think some will use simplified characters if
you search hard enough. However, once you walk out of that classroom you won't see simplified
characters anywhere although you will see some pinyin. And Wade Giles. And that's confusing.
However, in China, outside of public transport you're not going to see a lot of pinyin either,
just characters.
lilongyue -
I've been living in the Mainland for three years. I visited Taiwan and stayed for a few months,
so I have a little experience with both. I say go to Taiwan.
As far as language is concerned, at the end of the day it's still Chinese, so nothing to really
worry about there. All the talk about Mainland Chinese vs. Taiwan Chinese is essentially the
same argument as American vs. British English. Don't get too caught up in it.
China is a dirtier, more polluted, and an over-all less convenient place to live. It's also
less Westernized, and is not a free country, so people's views and opinions will be much more
"China-centric." As people are pretty much force fed Communist propaganda all their lives,
you're mostly going to get the Party line out of them. Most don't know any better, whatever
news they are able to get is filtered through the government's Censorship Bureau. There are
Chinese using proxies and getting news from outside sources. Also, not all Chinese love their
government, but it will take a while to get that out of them.
Taiwan, on the other hand, is a democracy. You won't always be fighting the Great Firewall of
China (if you don't know what that is you can google it) if you want to surf the internet, or find
news. There is a much stronger Western influence due to the island's relationship with
America. Their education system is more Western than China's. A lot of Taiwanese travel and
study in the West, too, so their "world view," if you will, is much more educated, and in line
with reality. It's also a beautiful island. You don't have people spitting, vomiting,
pissing and shitting all over the place like you do in China. China is an interesting place,
don't get me wrong, but for over all quality of life Taiwan wins hands down. However, if you're
just a kid in his early 20s looking to get a wild experience in a exotic place, China might be
more suitable. Taiwan really is China-light.
For the record, I've spent more than enough time living in third-world Asia, and am ready for some
modern conveniences (my year in India broke me of any fascination I had with developing
countries). I am also getting ready to start a family some time in the next few years. I
have a lot more to think about than a young man or woman just coming to Asia and so I've written
from this perspective. The only reason I'm not in Taiwan right now is that my wife is from the
Mainland, and it's essentially impossible to take her there.
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