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skylee -



Quote:

I thought that "定必" is equal to "必定" .

are you sure? i've never heard such expression though.

Positive.



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82riceballs -

謝謝大家！










Emily2008 -

I'm sure u c,chinese is an pictograph language, the character is the combine of meaning and
pronounce,and if the meaning could be expressed clearly ,the grammar require isn't too strict,
"定必" is informal but not wrong.and I 'm junior majoring in teaching chinese as a foriegn
language ,if u have some question ,u can sen e-mail to me,i'll try my best to help
u,hehe~~~bx142604422@hotmail.com










fireball9261 -

"定必" is equal to "必定" !?!

I don't think so. "必定" is the usual phrase. "定必" has to be used carefully in certain
sentences and context. They are not quite equal in this sense.

It's true that "必定成功" and " 定必成功" maybe OK either way. However,
"你這樣做必定不行" sounds right, but "你這樣做定必不行" sounds wrong. It's one of
those awkward use of Chinese again -- For those who did not know, I am paying back my English
teachers who have told me my awkward use of English!










82riceballs -

i did a google search for "必定" and "定必" (in quotation marks) and it appears that the

former has more hits (2,890,000 to be exact)
than the latter (747,000).

just thought i'd say that










muyongshi -

So who's write about this skylee or fireball??? I love it when there is a conflict like this... I
personally think the difference is not large but 必定 I think tends to be used more.










Emily2008 -

ok,thank u,fireball9261.I checked the latest dictionary of contemporary chinese to find
"定必",and i couldn't find it ,so the word isn't an formal word in mardarine chinese .and in
traditional chinese,"定"and "必" are two words.定 means "must" and "be needed to" ,meanwhile
,"必" has the some meaning. one character is a word in traditional chinese but in simplized
chinese has the trend that two syllables compose one word.so "必"plus"定" to become the word
"必定".
and then,i did a baidu search (the largest chinese search in the world) for"定必",and there're
all kindes of use of the word ,such
as"Ａ股定必是全世界最便宜的股票","这个定必出2码的思路",do u think it's an
awkward use?but chinese still use it.
if my foriegn student says"你这样做定必不行" ,i'll tell him "u're wrong"and "u must use
必定","必定" is formal.however when i read the sentence ,i can understand it.sometimes,the
confines of two chinese word is unclear,that's one reason that the chinese language is so
difficult to learn and to teach.










fireball9261 -



Quote:

if my foriegn student says"你这样做定必不行" ,i'll tell him "u're wrong"and "u must use
必定","必定" is formal.however when i read the sentence ,i can understand it.sometimes,the
confines of two chinese word is unclear,that's one reason that the chinese language is so
difficult to learn and to teach.

Chinese is an evolving language. Many Chinese phrases with two words of the similar meanings
sometimes got reverse over the years. One of the primary reasons was the wrongful use of phrases
by people who were not familiar with the phrases. When enough people used these wrong phrases,
they became the commonly used phrases. It happened all throughout the Chinese history. For
example, the word "bad smell" 臭 used to mean "good smell" in the ancient time. After x number of
years, the original meaning became forgotten, and the new meaning of the word became the official
meaning.

The same thing also happened with the phrases with the two words of the similar meanings. The
original usage was only using one of the words in the sentences. Then, someone used both words to
emphasize the meaning, like "it's very greatly impacted by ...". "Very" and "greatly" had similar
meanings, but they were used here for the purpose of emphasizing. In this way, to reverse the
words really did not impact the meaning of the phrase any way, so … many people said, "Who
cares! This sounds good, and it is a new way of saying an old thing. It makes me sounded
fashionable and creative." Therefore, people started using the term, and it became a formally used
phrase after x number of years.

In this time period, "必定" is still the correct, formal, and original term. However, "定必"
is getting to be the new and fashionable way of saying an old phrase. You are witnessing the
transformation of an old Chinese phrase and the creation of the new one.










muyongshi -



Quote:

Chinese is an evolving language.

All languages must evolve or otherwise they will die.....










Emily2008 -

thank u again,fireball9261 i still keep my opinion about the "定必".and if " '定必' is getting
to be the new and fashionable way of saying an old phrase. "what's the new concept of the word,and
which occasion it'll be used in ? i believed that the word has been informal until now.i asked
some friends and net-partners,someone even say that:"oh,i've never heared the word.maybe it has
the same meaning with '必定',i don't use the word in my daily life" meanwhile. and i got ur
meaning ,i like ur expression very much.may i make a friend with u? haha












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