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"Foreign Expert" requirements
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mandarinstudent -

I am currently in China on a tourist visa and trying to get a job as a teacher in a university.
One college wanted to hire me, but ran across some problems. When trying to get my "foreign
expert" certificate so that I could go to Hong Kong and change my visa, they were told that I
could not get it due to the fact that I had recently graduated college. The person at the college
told me that he was told that I need to work for 2 years AFTER graduating in order to be declared
a foreign expert and that I couldnt teach there unless I had the foreign expert certificate. I
have plenty of work experience, but I was working at the same time that I was going to college. Is
this true, or is the guy at the college lying or something? Do you really have to work for 2 years
after college to teach english at a university in China? At first, the man from the college said
that it would be difficult to change the tourist visa to a work visa, but he would try. He also
said that if I was in the US, the process would be a snap because there wouldnt have to be any
visa conversion. After contacting the people regarding the "expert certificate", he said that even
if I was in the US, they could still not hire me because I am a recent college grad and dont have
the 2 years working experience AFTER graduation. This doesnt sound right...Anyone know if this is
true? Thanks



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roddy -

First I've heard of it, and given the number of English teachers in China who are fresh out of
college I find it hard to believe this would be feasible to enforce. Could perhaps be some local
regulation, but it sounds to me like someone (could be the PSB, local foreign experts bureau, your
college?) is trying to put obstacles in your path.

Can you talk to other teachers locally? You might also want to check out the eslcafe.com forums.










imron -

As far as I know, it's a relatively new regulation that's been in force since about the beginning
of last semester - at least in Hebei Province where I was working, I can't say about other
provinces. It was causing the school I was at all sorts of problems because they couldn't get the
teachers that they wanted.










quanxie -

According to the SAFEA guidelines published in 1978 the basic requirements to be issued a
“Foreign Expert” certificates are:

1. Who can be considered foreign experts working in China ?
Foreign experts who are invited to work in China can be divided into the following:
1. Foreign educational, scientific, cultural and medical experts.
These refer to those experts who are employed by the Chinese schools and other educational
establishments in such fields as publication, medicine, scientific research, culture and art, and
sports. They should hold bachelor's degrees and have more than two years of experience.
2. Foreign economic, technical and managerial experts.
These are the foreign professionals who are invited to work on a long-term or short-term basis by
the Chinese government agencies, economic and social managerial departments, and by units in the
fields of industry, commerce, finance, politics and law. Included are those foreign specialists
sent by the foreign corporations to carry out agreements between governments or international
organizations and those who come with introduced projects or key construction projects, and those
invited directly by the work units to engage in technology and management.

But anyone who has lived here can tell you that a good rule of thumb is " the only thing
consistant is inconsistency"

Good luck,
Phil










mandarinstudent -



Quote:

They should hold bachelor's degrees and have more than two years of experience.

Well, according to this, I only need more than 2 years of experience, which I have. It doesnt say
that the experience is required to be AFTER graduating college. I was working and going to school
at the same time. The main point in denying me was the fact that I didnt have 2 years of
experience after graduating college. Do you guys think that it is worth bringing this point up, or
is it pointless to argue?










roddy -

Yeah, regulations are of limited use, and regulations from 1978 . . .

I'd take your cue from the school. If they're holding their hands up and saying 'nothing we can
do', then that's probably the case - even if there is a way around it, you're not going to get
there without the school's support. If they're giving you alternatives and suggestions - trip to
HK, whatever - then you still have options.










mandarinstudent -

The school definitely wants me...They called me a couple of days ago and gave me the details of
the whole package: pay, bonuses, vacation time, etc., and asked me to come in and sign the
contract Then just an hour later they call me and say that they cant get me the foreign expert
certificate to take to HK to change my visa to a work visa. Seems like whatever bureau is in
charge of the foreign expert certificates is giving them a hard time and saying that I need my
working experience AFTER graduating. Ive looked online and the regulation that quanxie posted from
1978 still looks the same today. My question is whether or not I should present this to the school
so that they can argue my case to the "foreign expert bureau" or whatever it is called. If I do
this and they do argue for me, is that just going to piss the bureau off and then I will never be
allowed to teach? Ive heard that here in China how much ass you kiss matters more than the actual
law...










roddy -

Do you need the FE cert to get the working visa in HK? I don't know either way, but in the past I
don't think it's been necessary. Sounds like there's not a lot of joined up thinking going on . . .










imron -

You shouldn't need a foreign expert certificate. What you do need is an official letter of
invitation issued by SAFEA in your province (which you mentioned in a PM was Hebei).

Once you have the letter of invitation you need to go to any Chinese embassy/consulate to apply
for your Z Visa - hence the need to visit HK, because there are no Chinese embassies inside of
China. You can of course visit other countries to do this, it's just that HK is usually the
fastest, cheapest and easiest option.

Then you enter China on your Z Visa and within 30 days of entry the school needs to go through
various procedures to get your Foreign Expert Certification and Residence Permit.

Recently (since about a year ago), the Hebei government (and possibly others, but my first-hand
experience with this is limited to Hebei) started getting a lot more strict with regards to
schools and foreign teachers.

There is now a standard contract issued and printed by SAFEA that all the schools have to use for
teachers working on a Z visa. You can't get a FEC unless you've signed one of these contracts,
which are official looking booklet type-things printed in both English and Chinese, with
watermarks and serial numbers and everything. It covers basic things such as observing the laws of
China, respecting China's religious policies etc etc, and also covers things like contract
termination. Schools can also add their own appendices to the contract, but have to use the
standard one as a base.

Also, the new strictness means that letters of invitation and FECs have to be processed in the
capital of Hebei (Shijiazhuang) making it a real pain for many schools to get these documents.
Previously schools used to be able to get that stuff sorted out locally.

Finally, since about 1 semester ago they started enforcing the various regulations more strictly,
such as the 2 year experience rule.

If you really want to work with the school, you could try getting an F visa instead, the possible
downside of that being you then can't get a FEC, which means that you can't easily change large
amounts of your salary into foreign currency (which is really all the FEC is used for nowadays).
This may or may not be a problem for you. Also, you probably wouldn't be signing the standard
SAFEA contract, just something the school would write up, if they made you sign a contract at all.
Again, the standard SAFEA contracts is really only something that's required to get the FEC, and
even if you were to sign a school written contract it probably wouldn't be worth too much anyway.

Alternatively, you could always massage the truth and say that you do have the experience gained
since graduating from college, because probably no-one is going to pay attention to the blurry
date on the poor-quality photocopy of your graduation certificate.










EmFinn -

One thing to note is that the two years experience requirement is waived in regions which are
officially lacking in foreign experts (Essentially up north and out west, other than Tibet).

There's no benefit in arguing that you worked during college. Most chinese people will not believe
you, and if they do will reckon this means you didn't do a serious college course, or didn't put
any effort into the course.

The real challenge though, as always, is how good are your potential employers contacts in the
police/immigration offices.












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