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muyongshi -

I've hear him on some commercials but I swear they all sound dubbed and not at all like what his
voice should sound like. I've seen him use English before on a show and the two are so different
there is no way the commercials are him. The voice reminds me of movies dubbed in the early 90's
from Cantonese in mandarin using really whining operatic type voices.

Is that really what he sounds like?



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赫杰 -



Quote:



Quote:

I think a good definition of fluency for our purposes here would be having roughly the same
communication ability in the second language as one has in the first.

I buy this. I was thinking along similar lines when I said earlier that a person with poor
communication skills in his native language is unlikely to achieve fluency in Mandarin.
Nevertheless your definition of fluency as the proportional correlation of abilities between one's
first and second language is a highly useful and appealing one.

I like this too. This goes back to why I said I don't care what is perceived as fluent as not,
because we are going to have our own standards, albeit I imagine they are not as different as some
people perceive them to be.



Quote:

That doesn't mean I need to be able to speak fluently about astrophysics in either language.

Well, any time we are talking about something we know of, but are not say like an expert in or
something, we will stumble. This is inevitable. So lets say you are into astrophysics, read about
it a lot but don't really talk to people about it, you just enjoy learning about it, but no expert
by any means. One day some dude unexpectedly asks you a question about planetary orbits or
something...you hesitate, you understand but you don't where to begin, it eventually comes out but
you just need some time to form you thoughts, during this time you are stumbling with words,
looking for concepts and aspects to speak from. This stumbling and mucking about is very natural,
it is apart of the expression process.

But what I want to see is you stumble and muck about in a Chinese way, in a way that only from the
aspect of how you express yourself, a Chinese would not be able to tell you’re a foreigner. Yes
pronunciation is so important, but if we just respond with a few words or express ourselves like a
child using like memorized phrases, hell yeah we could all sound as authentic as we want to be!
All you gotta do is drill a lot and train yourself to when you hear something, bam! You say the
memorized phrase without even thinking (just like knowing the next few words of a familiar song)
and you become a fluent speaking laowai. Lol. This is why I hate actors and speeches, and everyone
going crazy about their language capabilities. They prepare for so long for these things; of
course it is going to sound awesome! Come on, it is a show. Remember that famous 10 year black kid
singing 民歌? You think he can speak fluid Chinese?

This is why I am more impressed with people like 石磊 and just everything he does, and I once
saw an interview of some Russian lady that had opened a bread shop in Beijing. I remember being
impressed with that. The link of the Da Shan interview, yes, that is exactly what I am talking
about. I am much more impressed with these kinds of things. Notice the way Da Shan was pausing and
finding what to say, notice how long he was pausing for, notice his movements and how he stressed
the main points of what he was expressing, finally listen to what he is actually saying, how he
responded to the questions presented. Communication is just as much about presentation, as it is
pronunciation. When I look at 石磊, I see an American who speaks really good Chinese. But
that’s just it, he acts (perhaps even speaks) like an American, but it’s cool because it gives
his whole presentation a nice fresh feel, which appeals to his fan base. But the guy can’t muck
about in Chinese like Da Shan (as well as the pronunciation, but there is no need to state the
obvious). After all, 石磊 has only been here for a little over A YEAR. Lol. He will become the
next Da Shan, you will see. Perhaps even on a whole new level.



Quote:

I would say that you are fluent when in conversation with a native speaker, the native speaker
feels that it is as easy to talk with you as with another native speaker. I.e.the native speaker
can speak at full speed without worrying that you don't understand, and the native speaker
understands anything you say without straining.

I like this take as well. I think people need to remember that Chinese is just a tool to DO
THINGS. Go out and just use it (do whatever it is you do). There are so many foreigners in America
that know just enough English to do what it is they need to do, and there is nothing wrong with
that. Even if you are a so called perfectionist, first make sure you can do whatever it is you
want to do, and then think about all this “what is the standard fluency level.”

HJ










imron -

Thanks to the wonders of this page, which will decode any encoded JScript, we have the following
links to Dashan's interview:

High-bandwidth version

mms://nv.sina.com.cn/ent/2006/06/14298309.wmv
mms://nv.sina.com.cn/ent/2006/06/14892608.wmv
mms://nv.sina.com.cn/ent/2006/06/14487426.wmv

Low bandwidth version.

mms://nv.sina.com.cn/ent/2006/06/14595458.wmv
mms://nv.sina.com.cn/ent/2006/06/14190155.wmv
mms://nv.sina.com.cn/ent/2006/06/14784667.wmv

It's mms and wmv so you might still have trouble on your Mac depending on what kind you've got,
but at least it's a start.










imron -

Here's a link to the same interview that will work on Macs (works for me with both
Quicktime+Flip4Mac or VLC). It seems existing streaming software on the Mac doesn't take into
account redirect messages in the MMS protocol, hence it was failing to open the above listed files
which were getting redirected.












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